Thursday, September 18, 2008
US versus Canadian mobile
I now have student mobile plans in Montreal and Los Angeles. Not theoretical analyst studies - real life accounts with bills being paid with real money.
I am not seeing spectacular bargains in the home of the brave and it certainly isn't the land of the free!
Our Montreal student enjoys a plan that provides 200 peak minutes with unlimited evenings and weekends. Evenings start at 6pm. We have a message pack as well. All this, including system access fees, 911 fees, and all that jazz for the low, low monthly price of $30.
In LA, our student has 450 daytime minutes and virtually unlimited (5000 minutes) nights and weekends, but nights begin at 9pm. All the minutes are US nationwide. He gets 200 text messages, but the number applies to sending and receiving, not just outbound. He is paying $38 (thanks to a special 15% affinity discount associated with his university).
Where are the great deals south of the border?
The is some kvetching about wireless contracts [read the comments] at Michael Geist's blog and at Wireless North. There are already lots of choices in the marketplace with and without contracts; with and without extra fees. More choice is on its way with a number of new entrants.
Is regulation of a competitive market really an appropriate solution?
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I am not seeing spectacular bargains in the home of the brave and it certainly isn't the land of the free!
Our Montreal student enjoys a plan that provides 200 peak minutes with unlimited evenings and weekends. Evenings start at 6pm. We have a message pack as well. All this, including system access fees, 911 fees, and all that jazz for the low, low monthly price of $30.
In LA, our student has 450 daytime minutes and virtually unlimited (5000 minutes) nights and weekends, but nights begin at 9pm. All the minutes are US nationwide. He gets 200 text messages, but the number applies to sending and receiving, not just outbound. He is paying $38 (thanks to a special 15% affinity discount associated with his university).
Where are the great deals south of the border?
The is some kvetching about wireless contracts [read the comments] at Michael Geist's blog and at Wireless North. There are already lots of choices in the marketplace with and without contracts; with and without extra fees. More choice is on its way with a number of new entrants.
Is regulation of a competitive market really an appropriate solution?
Technorati Tags:
wireless
Posted by Mark Goldberg @ 9/18/2008 06:45:00 AM 
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Anecdotes are not an appropriate method of understanding the real situation, so your example proves nothing. For all I know, you picked the most expensive plan in LA, and a corporate plan in Montreal.
As for your last question, all I can say is that the financial & mortgage markets were extremely competitive in the US, and yet today there are a lot of people who wish it had been regulated tighter. Yes, it can be appropriate to regulate a competitive market.
As for your last question, all I can say is that the financial & mortgage markets were extremely competitive in the US, and yet today there are a lot of people who wish it had been regulated tighter. Yes, it can be appropriate to regulate a competitive market.
Posted by 
: 8:26 AM, September 18, 2008
: 8:26 AM, September 18, 2008
How the heck are you getting such a sweet deal in Montreal? More details please. Also, does the LA plan include voice mail and/or caller ID?
Posted by : 10:57 AM, September 18, 2008
: 10:57 AM, September 18, 2008
Both plans have caller ID. The US plan has voice mail.
And to the earlier comment - no, I didn't go out looking for the most expensive plan for LA. You don't know me very well.
The Montreal plan has been in effect for 5 years now.
And to the earlier comment - no, I didn't go out looking for the most expensive plan for LA. You don't know me very well.
The Montreal plan has been in effect for 5 years now.
Posted by 
Mark Goldberg : 11:08 AM, September 18, 2008
Mark Goldberg : 11:08 AM, September 18, 2008
Right, so the Montreal deal is a grandfathered Fido plan that is no longer available. With voice mail, it's the same cost as the LA plan, which has double the minutes, 200 texts and nationwide long distance. In other words, the LA plan is superior in every way (except evenings start later).
Posted by : 2:07 PM, September 18, 2008
: 2:07 PM, September 18, 2008
No, the Montreal phone is not [and was never] a Fido plan. It is a student plan, just like the LA plan.
Your brushing aside the 9pm start of evenings is a helluva thing to do, when LA is 3 hours away from most of the rest of the country. That is why he needs the additional minutes. The US plan charges for incoming and outgoing text messages; on our Canadian phone, incoming messages are free. So let's not jump so quickly to proclaim the US is "superior in every way."
The real point is that consumers need to take the responsibility themselves to shop around. There are deals on both sides of the border.
And the bottom line - while I am always looking to save even more money, the plans are affordable.
Your brushing aside the 9pm start of evenings is a helluva thing to do, when LA is 3 hours away from most of the rest of the country. That is why he needs the additional minutes. The US plan charges for incoming and outgoing text messages; on our Canadian phone, incoming messages are free. So let's not jump so quickly to proclaim the US is "superior in every way."
The real point is that consumers need to take the responsibility themselves to shop around. There are deals on both sides of the border.
And the bottom line - while I am always looking to save even more money, the plans are affordable.
Posted by Mark Goldberg : 2:18 PM, September 18, 2008
Mark Goldberg : 2:18 PM, September 18, 2008
I won't go so far as to call this an actual straw man, but it sure seems it wouldn't be a stretch to do so.
You are comparing the very rock bottom of the wireless market where extremely small numbers result in extremely small variations. I sincerely hope that we will see a real world, dollar for dollar comparison 6 months in to this experiment. Having lived in both of these markets myself, I found that it wasn't the base plan that was the issue, but the nickle and dime-ing that take place in Canada that are the real pain point. Add voice mail. There, the cost is equal. Add caller ID and a couple of other features that are included in the States. Make 10 long distance calls per month.
However, the analysis that I would really like to see: compare plans for a Blackberry in these two markets that provide full feature offerings, about 2000 minutes anytime, with no roaming or long distance fees in North America, typical Blackberry email service, and 1GB of monthly data. Basically the plan that a moderate/heavy business user would need.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to do this myself right now. Mark, think you can find a U.S. and a Canadian plan that are priced pretty similarly that meet these requirements?
You are comparing the very rock bottom of the wireless market where extremely small numbers result in extremely small variations. I sincerely hope that we will see a real world, dollar for dollar comparison 6 months in to this experiment. Having lived in both of these markets myself, I found that it wasn't the base plan that was the issue, but the nickle and dime-ing that take place in Canada that are the real pain point. Add voice mail. There, the cost is equal. Add caller ID and a couple of other features that are included in the States. Make 10 long distance calls per month.
However, the analysis that I would really like to see: compare plans for a Blackberry in these two markets that provide full feature offerings, about 2000 minutes anytime, with no roaming or long distance fees in North America, typical Blackberry email service, and 1GB of monthly data. Basically the plan that a moderate/heavy business user would need.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to do this myself right now. Mark, think you can find a U.S. and a Canadian plan that are priced pretty similarly that meet these requirements?
Geoff -
If you want a comparison of that plan, you have two choices - go find it (but you are too busy) or hire someone to do the research. I wrote about a real life shopping experience. I included the so-called nickels and dimes and my kids are actually remarkably similar in their usage to the averages.
No long distance fees in North America? Why? And who has such a plan in the US for a price that is affordable for the average user?
If you want a comparison of that plan, you have two choices - go find it (but you are too busy) or hire someone to do the research. I wrote about a real life shopping experience. I included the so-called nickels and dimes and my kids are actually remarkably similar in their usage to the averages.
No long distance fees in North America? Why? And who has such a plan in the US for a price that is affordable for the average user?
Posted by Mark Goldberg : 10:25 AM, September 19, 2008
Mark Goldberg : 10:25 AM, September 19, 2008
Mark:
Could you please let us know of the provider and the weblink of the Montreal plan?
I research Canadian cellphone plans on the Web quite a lot, and I don't believe any such plan is available.
Could you please let us know of the provider and the weblink of the Montreal plan?
I research Canadian cellphone plans on the Web quite a lot, and I don't believe any such plan is available.
Posted by : 10:02 PM, September 19, 2008
: 10:02 PM, September 19, 2008
No. I won't provide my provider or post a link, but I would be happy to show you my bill when you take me for lunch.
Sometimes, Vishal (and others), you need to move off the web and talk to a human in order to get the best deals.
It is a competitive market. Go negotiate with your provider.
Sometimes, Vishal (and others), you need to move off the web and talk to a human in order to get the best deals.
It is a competitive market. Go negotiate with your provider.
Posted by Mark Goldberg : 10:16 PM, September 23, 2008
Mark Goldberg : 10:16 PM, September 23, 2008
Sorry Mark, I just saw my message finally posted here. That's why I'm so late in replying.
Okay, so you confirmed my suspecion that the deal you are talking about is actually provided by a retention department.
Now, tell me, do you seriously believe that a market in which one has to bargain with the provider to get a good deal is competitve and good for the customer?
If that is the case, I don't believe that I have much to argue, because I already knew that you can threaten your provider with a cancellation in order to get a plan that much cheaper than the advertised ones.
By the way, I'd be happy to take you to lunch without you having to show me your bill.
Okay, so you confirmed my suspecion that the deal you are talking about is actually provided by a retention department.
Now, tell me, do you seriously believe that a market in which one has to bargain with the provider to get a good deal is competitve and good for the customer?
If that is the case, I don't believe that I have much to argue, because I already knew that you can threaten your provider with a cancellation in order to get a plan that much cheaper than the advertised ones.
By the way, I'd be happy to take you to lunch without you having to show me your bill.
Posted by : 10:31 PM, October 04, 2008
: 10:31 PM, October 04, 2008
Vishal -
Ha! No, not a retention plan - I've been with that carrier with no threats - it is a competitive market out there and there are always deals that you can find. I have friends who aren't in the business that do even better than me with their kids plans.
As for your question [do you seriously believe that a market in which one has to bargain with the provider to get a good deal is competitive and good for the customer?]: Think of the stereo market, the new and used car markets, housing markets - both rental and purchase, commercial and residential. You can pay list if you want, but most people negotiate to get the best deal. Wouldn't you agree that these are competitive markets? Some would say that if you can't negotiate that this would be evidence of a non-competitive market; the fact that consumers have leverage is evidence of the competitive nature of the business.
Call me at the office and we can hopefully find a date for lunch.
Ha! No, not a retention plan - I've been with that carrier with no threats - it is a competitive market out there and there are always deals that you can find. I have friends who aren't in the business that do even better than me with their kids plans.
As for your question [do you seriously believe that a market in which one has to bargain with the provider to get a good deal is competitive and good for the customer?]: Think of the stereo market, the new and used car markets, housing markets - both rental and purchase, commercial and residential. You can pay list if you want, but most people negotiate to get the best deal. Wouldn't you agree that these are competitive markets? Some would say that if you can't negotiate that this would be evidence of a non-competitive market; the fact that consumers have leverage is evidence of the competitive nature of the business.
Call me at the office and we can hopefully find a date for lunch.
Posted by Mark Goldberg : 10:56 PM, October 04, 2008
Mark Goldberg : 10:56 PM, October 04, 2008
Mark:
So, you mean to say that I, as a POTENTIAL customer (not an existing one), can call up a wireless company to get a plan that is better than the advertised ones? And they'll be willing to negotiate with me?
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So, you mean to say that I, as a POTENTIAL customer (not an existing one), can call up a wireless company to get a plan that is better than the advertised ones? And they'll be willing to negotiate with me?
Posted by : 11:20 PM, October 05, 2008
: 11:20 PM, October 05, 2008 << Home
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